On February 11, 2019, the Department of English and the Department of World Languages & Cultures jointly put together an event titled “Contested Sites.” It was focused on the exploration and discussion of a book by the Argentinian poet Néstor Ponce titled Disappearance without absence (Desapariencia no engaña). The book is dedicated to the individuals who were kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the military dictatorship in Argentina (1976 -1983).

On February 11, 2019, the Department of English and the Department of World Languages & Cultures jointly put together an event titled “Contested Sites.” It was focused on the exploration and discussion of a book by the Argentinian poet Néstor Ponce titled Disappearance without absence (Desapariencia no engaña). The book is dedicated to the individuals who were kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the military dictatorship in Argentina (1976 -1983).

After Assistant Teaching Professor in Latin American Studies Max Ubelaker Andrade (Néstor Ponce’s English translator) opened the session with a description of the book and presented some of its underlying tensions, Assistant Professor of English Maia Gil’Adí and Associate Professor of English Keith Mitchell offered their interpretations of selected poems. This was followed by a discussion that included the panelists and the audience members.

At the close of the event, participants were given the opportunity to submit a few questions to the poet. These questions were subsequently translated and presented to Néstor Ponce, whose responses are presented below in both English and Spanish. (All translations are by Max Ubelaker Andrade.)

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I want to thank Max and all of the students. Their questions are pertinent, interesting, and helpful to me as I reflect on my own writing. Thank you for having read my work.

Quiero agradecer a Max y a todos los estudiantes. Las preguntas son pertinentes, interesantes y me ayudan en mi reflexión sobre mi propia escritura. Gracias por haberme leído.
Néstor Ponce

  • Candice Bishop:

    Has the practice of writing after your experience with the dictatorship in Argentina helped you? Do you believe that there is a relationship between the act of writing and the process of healing after traumatic experiences?

    ¿A usted le ha ayudado la práctica de escribir poesía después de su experiencia con la dictadura en Argentina? ¿Cree usted que hay una relación entre el acto de escribir y el proceso de sanar después de experiencias traumáticas?

    NP: For me, the experience of the dictatorship was very traumatic, for many reasons (the disappearance of my girlfriend and of many friends, having to live underground). With regard to writing, censorship prevented me from expressing myself freely. In 1975 I won a literary prize (for a novel), but the book was not published due to its political content. When I was in exile, when I tried to write a novel about the period of the dictatorship, I couldn’t find a way to do it. Many years passed and then, suddenly, my book about the dictatorship was composed of poetry (Disappearance without absence)…

    I also think that writing the book was a kind of therapy that allowed me to return to very difficult periods in my life that, at the same time, reflected the terrible drama that was lived in those days. Today, when I am invited to speak about my work, I read a few fragments of my texts. Reading the poems in Disappearance… moves me in the deepest parts of myself, they remind me of the lives of the disappeared, those that I knew and those that I did not know.

    NP: La experiencia de la dictadura fue muy traumática para mí, por muchas razones (desaparición de mi novia, de muchos amigos, pasaje a la clandestinidad). En lo que se refiere a la escritura, la censura me impedía expresarme libremente. En 1975 gané un premio literario (de novela), pero el libro no fue publicado por su contenido político. Ya en el exilio, cuando quise escribir una novela sobre el periodo de la dictadura, no conseguía hacerlo. Pasaron muchos años y luego, de repente, mi libro sobre la dictadura fue de poesía (Desapariencia no engaña)…

    Pienso también que la escritura del libro fue una especia de terapia, que me permitió volver a épocas muy duras de mi existencia y que al mismo tiempo reflejan el terrible drama que se vivió en aquel entonces. Hoy en día, cuando me invitan a hablar sobre mi obra, leo algunos fragmentos de mis textos. La lectura de los poemas de Desapariencia… me conmueve en lo más profundo de mí, me recuerdan el drama de los desaparecidos, los que conocí y los que no conocí.

    Do you have advice for other writers?

    ¿Tiene usted consejos para otros escritores?

    NP: I believe that constancy is the great secret of writing. To not lose your energy faced with failed attempts. To return again and again to texts, to know how to let go of pages. I also think that in my case reading other authors helps me to find rigor and humility in terms of what I do. On the internet you can find a short text of mine, “Soy un hombre leyendo,” in which I refer to my relationship with the writing of others.

    NP: Creo que el gran secreto de la escritura es la constancia. No desanimarse ante los intentos fallidos. Volver una y otra vez sobre los textos, saber desechar páginas. Pienso además que, en mi caso, la lectura de otros autores me ayuda a encontrar rigor y humildad ante lo que hago. En Internet se encuentra un breve texto mío, “Soy un hombre leyendo”, en el cual me refiero a mi relación con otros escritos.

    En torno a "Memoria perra fiel," ¿cómo se siente usted sobre el poema? ¿Para usted, hay un aspecto liberador?

    With regard to “Memory faithful dog,” how do you feel about this poem? For you, is there a liberating aspect to it?

    NP: The central idea is memory, to fight against the other memories (those of the dictators, that justify the horror). I believe that this the main struggle: it is not a question of fighting against forgetting, but rather against the other memories that disfigure history. The title of the poem follows a double idea: on the one hand, of course, there is the importance of memory. A community without memory does not exist and has no future, because if one does not fight against the horror, the horror can return and freedom can be lost. On the other hand, there is the idea of the faithful animal, which I take as an example for human beings, who can be so vicious and cruel with others. The dog, which is often referred to as man’s best friend, never betrays.

    NP: El tema central es la memoria, luchar contra las otras memorias (las de los dictadores, que justifican los horrores). Creo que es el principal combate: no se trata de luchar contra el olvido, sino contra las otras memorias que desfiguran la historia. El título del poema sigue una doble idea: por un lado, claro está, la importancia de la memoria. Un pueblo sin memoria no existe y no tiene futuro, porque si no se lucha contra el horror, el horror puede volver, y la libertad se pierde. Por el otro lado, la idea del animal fiel, que tomo como un ejemplo para los seres humanos, que pueden ser sanguinarios y crueles con el prójimo. El perro, de quien se dice que es el mejor amigo del hombre, nunca traiciona.



    Amy Brennan:

    What was the experience of returning to Argentina like after being in exile?

    ¿Cómo fue la experiencia de regresar a Argentina después de exiliarse?

    NP: When the dictatorship fell, in 1983, I could not return because I had deserted the army (the mandatory military service required in those days) and so it was a question of military, not civil law. I had to wait until 1986 to be able to return, when the government passed a law annulling the separate legal status of the military. The experience of coming back was very intense: finding myself with my family (I am an only child) and with my friends (the exiles who had returned and those who were never involved in politics and stayed in Argentina). Returning was a very strong emotional shock: to be in contact not only with the people, but also with the language, listening to how everyone around me spoke like I did, revisiting the geography, the streets of La Plata and Buenos Aires, encountering the color of the sky in Argentina which is different than that of France, returning to the smells, which are also different. In addition to all of this, I now had a son, Bruno, and it was an opportunity for him to discover his father’s country.

    NP: Cuando cayó la dictadura, en 1983, no podía volver, porque había desertado del ejército (servicio militar obligatorio en aquel entonces) y entonces no dependía de la justicia civil, sino de la justicia militar. Tuve que esperar hasta 1986, cuando el gobierno votó una ley anulando el fuero de la justicia militar, para poder volver. La experiencia del regreso fue muy intensa: encontrarme con la familia (soy hijo único), con los amigos (los exiliados que habían regresado y los que nunca se interesaron por la política y que se quedaron en Argentina). Regresar fue un choque emocional muy fuerte: encontrarse no sólo con la gente, sino también con la lengua, escuchar alrededor que toda la gente hablaba como yo, revisitar la geografía, las calles de La Plata y de Buenos Aires, volver a encontrarme con el color del cielo de Argentina que es diferente del de Francia, volver a encontrarme con los olores, que también son distintos. Se agrega a esto el hecho de que ya tenía un hijo, Bruno, y era la oportunidad de que descubriera el país de su padre.

    How long was is necessary to process what happened before beginning to write your poems?

    ¿Por cuánto tiempo fue necesario procesar lo que ocurrió antes de empezar a escribir los poemas?

    NP: You are all asking very good questions. You must have an excellent professor! I don’t know exactly why, but when I thought about writing about the dictatorship, it was always in the form of a novel. The poems on the topic came about spontaneously, as if I were the interpreter of a collective scream, of a pain that had to become audible. It was a process of many years, which continued up until the publication of the book in 2010. I began writing it in the 1990's. Later, I had a surprise. There is a group dedicated to genetic criticism in the National University of La Plata (Universidad Nacional de La Plata) that is researching my work. As you know, the foundation of genetic criticism is working with manuscripts. When they asked that I donate my archives, I discovered—to my great surprise, I confess—that in the 1980's there were sketches of what later turned into Disappearance without absence.

    NP: Ustedes me hacen muy buenas preguntas. ¡Deben tener un excelente profesor! No sé por qué motivo cuando pensaba en escribir sobre la dictadura, siempre lo hacía en forma novelesca. Los poemas sobre el tema surgieron de manera espontánea, como si yo fuera el intérprete de un grito colectivo, de un dolor que tenía que ser audible. Fue un proceso de muchos años, hasta la publicación del libro en 2010. Comencé a escribirlo en los años 90. Después tuve una sorpresa. Hay un grupo de crítica genética de la Universidad Nacional de La Plata que investiga sobre mi obra. Como ustedes saben, el principio de la crítica genética es trabajar sobre los manuscritos. Cuando me pidieron que les donara mis archivos, me encontré, confieso que a mi gran sorpresa, que ya en los años 80 había esbozos de lo que luego fue Desapariencia no engaña.



    Nicole Rocci:

    Were these poems always intended to be read by the public or did some of them begin as private texts?

    ¿Siempre fueron destinados a un público estos poemas o algunos empezaron como textos privados?

    NP: In contrast to Borges, who said that he wrote for himself and a few friends, I write for my readers. I want to transmit vital experiences, always avoiding pamphleteering. Regardless, every act of writing, at least at the beginning, is a private experience. The author is alone in front of their text, in front of the blank page. It is a strange relationship, which extends from the personal to the private; it is a kind of confession, a revelation, an opening up of intimacy that is offered to someone else.

    NP: A diferencia de Borges, que decía que escribía para él y para los amigos, yo escribo para mis lectores. Quiero transmitir una experiencia vital, pero evitando permanentemente el panfleto. De todos modos, toda escritura, al menos al comienzo, es una experiencia privada. El autor está solo ante su texto, ante la página en blanco. Es una relación curiosa, que va de lo personal a lo privado, es una especie de confesión, de revelación, de abrir la intimidad a otra persona.

    What has the impact of this book been on your life?

    ¿Cuál ha sido el impacto de este libro en su vida?

    NP: There are two aspects. On the one hand, there is the fact that the book has made it possible to express a very profound and intimate sense of pain. On the other, the success that this book had in Argentina and its translations (into French and English) was very gratifying. Each translation is accompanied by a presentation, and to travel and dialogue with the public in other countries (England, France, Germany, Spain, as well as countries in the Caribbean) is a way to bring new life to the text, one of the ways to construct and develop a text.

    NP: Dos aspectos, por un lado, el hecho de haber podido expresar un sentimiento de dolor muy profundo e íntimo. Por el otro, el éxito que tuvo el libro en Argentina, sus traducciones (al francés y al inglés) fueron muy valorizadoras. Cada traducción está acompañada de una presentación, y viajar y dialogar con el público de otros países (Inglaterra, Francia, Alemania, España, el Caribe) es una forma de hacer revivir el texto, de las formas de construir y de elaborar un texto.



    Connor Pennel:

    Is there something fundamental that you would like the reader to understand after reading Disappearance without absence?

    ¿Hay algo fundamental que usted quiere que el lector entienda después de leer Desapariencia no engaña?

    NP: Writing begins, for me, with dialogue. I leave the doors open for readers to participate, to reflect, to feel free when they encounter my texts. I want to emphasize the importance of the imagination, which is the foundation of the freedom of all human beings. As Michel Foucault has said, “to dream one does not need to close one’s eyes, one needs only to read.”

    NP: El principio de la escritura es para mí el diálogo. Yo dejo las puertas abiertas a los lectores para que participen, para que reflexionen, para que se sientan libres al encontrarse con mis textos. Me interesa recalcar la importancia de la imaginación, que es un fundamento de la libertad del ser humano. Como decía Michel Foucault, “para soñar no hay que cerrar los ojos, hay que leer”.

  • Néstor Ponce (Argentina, 1955) is a poet, novelist, short-story writer and essayist. He has lived in France since 1979, when he arrived as a political exile. His work has received numerous literary prizes and recognitions.

    Max Ubelaker Andrade is an Assistant Teaching Professor in Latin American Studies at the University of Massachusetts Lowell. Disappearance without absence, his translation of Néstor Ponce’s Desapariencia no engaña, was published by Waterloo Press in 2017. His book Borges Beyond the Visible (2019) is available now from Penn State University Press.